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== Conversion in total area ==

Hello, I am Cleter, and I would like to begin by stating that the conversion of the land area in the UK reads as follows:

{{tq|The total area of the United Kingdom is 94,060 square miles (243,610 km2), with an estimated 2022 population of nearly 67 million people.}}

I suggest the following change in accordance to [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Unit_choice_and_order]] which includes:
* In '''non-scientific articles with strong ties to the United Kingdom''', the primary units for most quantities are metric or other internationally used units, except that:
** UK engineering-related articles, including those on bridges and tunnels, generally use the system of units in which the subject project was [[Engineering drawing|drawn up]] (but road distances are given in imperial units, with a metric conversion – see next bullet);
** the primary units for distance/length, speed and fuel consumption are [[Statute mile|miles]], miles per hour, and miles per imperial gallon (except for short distances or lengths, where miles are too large for practical use);
** the primary units for personal height and weight are feet/inches and stones/pounds;
** imperial pints are used for quantities of draught beer/cider and bottled milk;

As you can see, none of these circumstances are applicable to the article. Therefore, I request that the sentence in green be readjusted to this (including the 2 sources):

{{tq|The total area of the United Kingdom is 243,610 square kilometres (94,060 mi2), with an estimated 2022 population of nearly 67 million people.}} [[User:Cleter|🅲🅻🅴🆃🅴🆁]] ([[User talk:Cleter|a word]]) 03:58, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

:Given area is a function of distances, I don't think the use of square miles is out of line with that MoS even if not specifically mentioned. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 10:19, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
::One difficulty is that all ONS statistics (along with the OS, the only genuine authority on area measurements in the UK) are metric, both for Standard Area Measurements and density. You're absolutely right of course—the MoS means that the figure should be imperial first. But nonetheless, it always feels to me a little dishonest that Wikipedia presents British area measurements as though the statistic is imperial and that Wiki is converting it to metric. When in fact the opposite is true. [[User:Dgp4004|Dgp4004]] ([[User talk:Dgp4004|talk]]) 12:53, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Cleter|Cleter]]: I agree with @[[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]]. I've lived in the country for some time. We're used to square metres and hectares for small measurements, but larger areas are mostly spoken of in square miles (or [[List of unusual units of measurement#Other countries|Isle of Wights]] or [[List of unusual units of measurement#Wales|Wales]]). I suspect this is because road distances, which are a practical yardstick for envisaging a large area, are stated in miles. [[User:Bazza 7|Bazza]] ([[User talk:Bazza 7|talk]]) 10:53, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

== @117PXL ==

{{ping|117PXL}} You seem to misunderstand "bias" and "neutrality" as it operates on Wikipedia. Please read [[WP:BRD]], self-revert and discuss your edit here. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 12:19, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|117PXL}} when you come off your block, put forward your arguments here. If you revert again without getting consensus support first you will just get a longer block. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 23:43, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
::Apologies, I didn’t realise I would need a consensus for removing the image because I thought the bias was obvious. I will explain my thoughts…
::In Northern Ireland the pro Irish community speak Irish (Ulster-Irish) and the pro British community speak Ulster-Scots, as well as speaking English.
::There are signs in Northern Ireland that are translated into both languages, here are some examples I found:
::https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Multilingual_sign_Department_Culture_Leisure_Arts_Northern_Ireland.jpg
::https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Derry_Guildhall_Nameplate_2013_09_17.jpg
::
::https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Looking_for_the_%22Cludgies%22%5E_-_geograph.org.uk_-_637820.jpg
::As you can see the ‘Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure’ is translated into both languages.
::These examples show no bias, but do highlight division, so I thought it would be wiser to remove the image, as leaving it, could annoy the pro British community.
::All thoughts are welcome. [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 21:26, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks. First of all whether it would "annoy the pro British community" is irrelevant and not a factor that would or could be taken into account on Wikipedia. See [[WP:NOTCENSORED]]. I think that sort of thinking has led you to misunderstand [[WP:NPOV|neutrality]] here. It's not about "balancing" conflicts - see [[WP:FALSEBALANCE]] which is not exactly on point here but is related. I don't see any "bias" in the pic you wanted to remove for a number of reasons. Ultimately it's just an instance of a multilingual sign in the UK. That's all. Having said that, the pics that you have linked to are an even better illustrations. I wouldn't have a problem with any of those. The other problem with your edit was cluttering of the Topography section with 4 pics. It's not 'bias' just to have pics from 2 countries - unnecessary clutter is a much more significant issue. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 22:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|117PXL}} I see you went ahead with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_Kingdom&diff=1206651743&oldid=1206630955 this edit], which constitutes another revert. The above was just ''my'' opinion - I wouldn't say that is a new consensus particularly as another editor reverted you too. You've just come off a block for edit-warring the removal of the pic. Whilst the edit is ok with me, you run the risk of being re-blocked. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 20:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::The text on [[:File:Derry Guildhall Nameplate 2013 09 17.jpg]] is much harder to see in thumbnail view than that on [[:File:Bilingual welcome sign Newry.jpg]], so I disagree with 117PXL's replacement of the latter with the former (which I see has now been reverted). [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 20:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::Sorry didn't see the latest comment. But I don't think we should have the previous photo on there. [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 21:14, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::I understand the Wikipedia rules and I understand the image doesn't look as attractive from affar. But this is the main UK page and there are two communities in Northern Ireland that have to work together. There is a Welsh image if the contrast is the issue...
::::::https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Welcome_sign_Llandrindod.jpg [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 21:22, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::Is everyone happy with the Welsh one? [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 21:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I thought there was no objections to a welsh image and the long place name looked good on there? [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 23:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::::I think there are too many pro republic editors on here such as the last Canadian one. [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 23:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::You'd be better serve trying to get consensus for you changes rather than casting aspersions.-- [[User:Ponyo|'''Ponyo''']][[User talk:Ponyo|''bons mots'']] 23:44, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|117PXL}} What does my being a republican & a Canadian, have to do with the disputed topic? [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 01:08, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::::It's at [[WP:AN3]] plus [[WP:PA]]. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 01:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 February 2024 ==

{{edit extended-protected|United Kingdom|answered=yes}}
update first minster post for northern irealand [[User:Saltcoats123|Saltcoats123]] ([[User talk:Saltcoats123|talk]]) 15:01, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Saltcoats123|Saltcoats123]]: What do you want changed? Read the instructions in the template which you inserted: {{quote|"Please change X" is '''not acceptable''' and will be rejected; the request '''must''' be of the form "please change X to Y".}} Bazza 7 ([[User_talk:Bazza_7|talk]]) 15:44, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 February 2024 ==

{{Edit extended-protected|United Kingdom|answered=yes}}
Under "History - Postwar 20th Century" it is stated that the UK was a founding member of today's EU. It was not. The UK was not a signatory of the Treaty of Rome and therefore not a founding member of the EEC (present-day EU). In fact, its request to join the bloc was vetoed by France, twice. Please correct this mistake. [[User:Pandrej01|Pandrej01]] ([[User talk:Pandrej01|talk]]) 22:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit extended-protected}} template. It doesn't say it was founding member of the [[EEC]] which came into being in 1957. It says it was a founding member of the [[European Union]] which was a different entity (albeit a successor) that came into being in 1993 and which the UK was a founding member. It doesn't seem to be incorrect. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 22:29, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== Rare Book ==

The Orchard Pavilion by Arthur Christopher Benson.1914 1st edition. Leather bound and Gold embossed. Printed by Ballantyne,Hanson &Co. Edinburgh. [[User:Darlene Mumford|Darlene Mumford]] ([[User talk:Darlene Mumford|talk]]) 22:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

== Infobox content ==

Do we ''really'' need to list England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland in the infobox? Most (if not all) other independent countries (sovereign states) don't seem to list their components in their infoboxes. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 00:30, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:How about Britain and Northern Ireland?[[User:Halbared|Halbared]] ([[User talk:Halbared|talk]]) 09:30, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Halbared|Halbared]], [[Britain]]? -- [[User:DeFacto|DeFacto]] ([[User Talk:DeFacto|talk]]). 09:40, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]], how many other countries have countries as components? -- [[User:DeFacto|DeFacto]] ([[User Talk:DeFacto|talk]]). 09:43, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::Denmark and the Netherlands are both listed at [[Constituent country]] as having constituent countries, and they're not included in the respective infoboxes. [[User:Waggers|Waggers]][[User talk:Waggers|''TALK'']] 10:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::So not many of the 200ish sovereign states then.
:::To put that into context here then, what we are saying is, given that two of the three sovereign states that have constituent countries don't list them in their infobox, why do we list them in this article. -- [[User:DeFacto|DeFacto]] ([[User Talk:DeFacto|talk]]). 10:36, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::::Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no practical difference between a "country" in this context and a "state". The [[Country]] article pretty much says as much. There are LOTS of sovereign states (or countries) that are comprised of constituent states, which may or may not be nation states. I can't pretend I've looked at all 200 sovereign state articles but of the ones I have looked at where I know they have constituent states, they don't list them in the infobox. [[User:Waggers|Waggers]][[User talk:Waggers|''TALK'']] 12:44, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::If 'state' and 'country' are synonymous, I wonder why it sounds so wrong to say "the United States of America is a federation of 50 countries". So I guess there is a difference. -- [[User:DeFacto|DeFacto]] ([[User Talk:DeFacto|talk]]). 14:02, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::A (n independent) [[sovereign state]] is not the same thing as a (constituent) [[U. S. state]], just like how a (constituent) UK "country" is not the same thing as a (sovereign) "country". This isn't hard to understand but everyone thinks it's hilarious to say "BUT WALES IS A ''COUNTRY''" when we're talking about sovereign states like Zambia or Paraguay. The primary administrative divisions in the UK are their "countries" (but sometimes Northern Ireland is just a "province"?) so they are equivalent to Alabama or Nebraska. They're not special just because 130 years ago, the British decided they get to compete with multiple teams in soccer tournaments. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (ko'''a'''vf)]]❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯ 01:54, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
:Good point. There's an obvious reason why the USA article doesn't list all 50 states, but equally Canada's infobox doesn't list its provinces, Australia's doesn't list its constituent states. I agree, for consistency there doesn't seem a particularly good reason why there should be an exception for the UK. [[User:Waggers|Waggers]][[User talk:Waggers|''TALK'']] 09:49, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::Infoboxes are often abused: most can be reduced by a quarter or so. This one is no different. [[User:Roger 8 Roger|Roger 8 Roger]] ([[User talk:Roger 8 Roger|talk]]) 10:43, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::Indeed, the field being used is one for membership in international organisations. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 14:36, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::::Presumably that should list things like NATO, which are currently ''not'' in the InfoBox because this has stolen their place. I think that makes the case for ditching the constituent country list even more compelling.... and I'm not seeing any objections so far. [[User:Waggers|Waggers]][[User talk:Waggers|''TALK'']] 14:57, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::Absolutely agree. I never before noticed that it was shoehorned in by misusing that parameter. Seems have been added in 2017 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_Kingdom&diff=780886340&oldid=780236380 here]. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 19:32, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]], @[[User:Waggers|Waggers]], @[[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]], that [[Template:Infobox country|field's documentation]] supports the way it is used in this article. The example is for the EU, showing the member countries as a list in the membership field.
::::::As the UK has four member countries, that field is being correctly used, and the membership_type field is being used correctly too - to label the members as 'Countries'. -- [[User:DeFacto|DeFacto]] ([[User Talk:DeFacto|talk]]). 20:01, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Why should it matter, what parts of an independent country is called? Scotland, Ontario, Tasmania, etc etc. No matter what you call'em, each are a component of an independent country. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 20:04, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]], it doesn't - does it? The template provides a field for them and one that allows the editor to label them as whatever they are. So you could legitimately add a (collapsed) list of its 50 states to the [[USA]] article, and label the field as "states". You could add the cantons, and label them as such, to the [[Switzerland]] article if you so desierd. -- [[User:DeFacto|DeFacto]] ([[User Talk:DeFacto|talk]]). 20:12, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Forgive me, but I just don't agree with you. IMHO, Wales, Northern Ireland, England & Scotland should be ''deleted'' from the infobox. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 20:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::::DeFacto, the template documentation is precisely the opposite of what you have claimed. If you look, it says {{tq|This infobox template is used to generate an infobox for the right-hand side of two specific types of article: on a country or territory, or on a geopolitical organisation.}} It then gives the syntax, separately, for Infobox Country and Infobox Geopolitical organisation. The "Membership" parameter, not surprisingly, is only given for the geopolitical organisation. It is omitted from Infobox country. As one would expect, the EU infobox begins {{tq|Infobox geopolitical organisation}}. That's why it's there. The "Membership" parameter has been wrongly inserted in the Infobox country in this article. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 20:54, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

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